A Sidebar Conversation (Let’s Talk About Sex)

CONTENT WARNING: I will be talking about sex, the sexuality of my relationship, and the cognitive dissonance it should have (but fails to) with my wife.  This will not be graphic, nor in any detail. However, if having this kind of conversation makes you uncomfortable then you might want to skip this post.

The birds and the bees

The birds and the bees

The other night when I was telling my wife some of the “why” of me becoming an atheist we had a sidebar conversation regarding sexual morality and the Bible.  For as faithful, devout, and conservative my wife is in regards to religion, her views on sexual morality have always been pretty progressive.  Well, progressive compared to our context.

Truth is, her and I had a sexual relationship prior to marriage.  Sure, we thought it was “bad”.  There were many times where we “quit”.  We even got busted once.  But we loved each other, and knew marriage was where we were headed.  And honestly, the sex was really awesome.  We just work together in than matter.  We always have and still do.  But while we were dating, she never seemed to have a moral problem with us sleeping together.  I did.  It stressed me out.  But she has never had any regrets over it.

I decided to explore this avenue as a means to develop the, “you don’t always believe the bible either” approach to atheist/Christian debates.

After sitting on our porch and talking about God, we notice it’s getting late.  We walk inside and start cleaning up.  We finally head up stairs and in our room we start talking about sex and sexual ethics.

Me: I really don’t understand how you keep you views on sex and sexuality, and still consider yourself a conservative Christian.

Her: What do you mean?

Me: Well, honey, we had sex before we were married.

Her: Hell yeah we did, it was awesome.

I should mention at this point that my wife has brought this up with church people on a couple of occasions.  You can’t imagine how embarrassing it is for me as a pastor to have my wife talk about the fact that we had sex before marriage.  And not as a counseling point. Oh no, no, no, just as a random factoid of our relationship.  A couple of our staff members know, as well as a few elders.  They never brought it up again.  I’m thinking they’re all guilty of the same “sin”.

Me: Right, but you do realize that is against the bible?

Her: Well yeah.

Me: And you don’t have a problem with that?

Her: Nope! [she says proudly]

This is me on the inside right now!

This is me on the inside right now!

Me:But…but… what?!  That’s against the bible! That’s directly in opposition to the law of God! Why doesn’t that bother you if you believe in the bible?

Her: We knew we were getting married. I wasn’t sleeping with some guy, I was sleeping with my husband.

Me: Ok, but we weren’t married. I wasn’t your husband.

Her: Yet.

Me: Yet.

Her: Look, every guy I slept with before you I always felt guilty about it.  I always felt wrong.  But with you, it was right.

Me: Ok but that’s the thing, it wasn’t right. Not if the Bible is right. Either the sex was right and the bible wrong, or the bible was right and the sex was wrong. Like, you can’t have it both ways.

Inadvertent sexual pun. We both giggle like teenagers.

Me: So you don’t think there was anything “wrong” about our sexual relationship?

Her: No I don’t.

Me: I don’t either anymore.  You know who else I don’t think is wrong? Kyle.

He and his wife waited until marriage. They fucking waiting until their wedding night.

She smiles at the pun. God! What are we, 12?

Me: They wait till marriage.  They then have a terrible relationship, including sexually.  They get divorced, he gets a new girlfriend, falls in love with her, and they have sex.  He even said that there was a lot of emotional healing that came about through his positive sexual relationship with his girlfriend.  He was healed as a person through positive sexuality with someone he is not married to.  And I don’t have a problem with that!

Her: I don’t either!

Me: Oh, but you should! If you believe in the Bible, and if the Bible is right, then he’s going against the expressed will and commandments of God.

Her: Well I still believe in God and the Bible, I just see things differently.

Me: And that’s fine, but that’s not Biblical Christianity.  That’s not Jesus, Paul, Moses, et al.

This is part of why I can’t, yes “can’t”, believe.  I can’t condemn Kyle.  He did it the right way, and God wasn’t there for him and his wife.  And now they have a kid, and he stuck in that God awful [city name here].  Yet we go against God’s commands and advice and look how awesome we are! Kyle goes against the Bible and look how awesome him and his girlfriend are!  I just can’t believe the Bible when it doesn’t work.  And I cant believe in God when he doesn’t show up.

We are finally laying in bed.  She looks me in the eyes

Her: But John, I have to believe…

Me: I know… but either God exists and the bible is totally wrong about him, or he doesn’t exist. I just find it easier to believe he doesn’t exist…

At this point you’ve already read how this conversation ends…

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8 thoughts on “A Sidebar Conversation (Let’s Talk About Sex)

  1. I have been following your story, John, and it seems to me that (judging from the things you have revealed on your blog) although your wife may love god, I’m betting she loves you more – I think it’s a safe one. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  2. It sounds good 🙂
    I am glad things are going OK.

    Aside from the nutballs that believe gay marriage is the cause of ISIS, 9/11, Katrina and various other disasters, along with crime indexes and rape statistics, your wife seems to be a very normal Christian.

    By that I mean someone that is willing to paint outside the lines when it comes to the bible if it is unreasonable. That in my book is a good Christian. Not all Christians will agree and it is objectively contradictory but it also mean she is not Cucu for cocoa puffs, which is very good..

    Liked by 2 people

  3. I think that you would have to be insane not to have sex before marriage. If the sex is gonna be bad the rest of your life, you should be informed about it before hand, before you’re tempted to cheat afterwards. I believe you’re either good at it or you’re not. Not many make drastic improvements. My old NA sponsor would say to me that the importance of sex in a relationship was about 10%, but if the sex is bad, it becomes 90%….will create difficulties if you aren’t happy in that dept. If you can work on it before hand, then maybe it can really enhance the relationship, and if it really sucks and there is no hope, then this is a good eye opener that maybe you and your partner maybe aren’t the best match. So your name is John? I have been wanting to refer to you as something…didn’t want to call you Pastor, LOL. I am a sex worker, and most of my clients are married…the magic, if there was any, is gone in the bedroom. That’s why they come to me. Women, if you don’t want your man to cheat, you better start learning and practicing on giving a good BJ…it might just save your marriage in the future. I am not joking BTW! Some men and women just cheat to cheat, but many do for the reason I just mentioned.

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    • My name isn’t “John” that’s just my alias. John Jameson as in the founder of Jameson whiskey. Love me some Jameson.

      I also can’t say enough about purposely trying to improve the sex you have with your SO. When my wife and I first started sleeping together it was good, but I found her really shy about talking about sex. I developed a theory, the more she enjoys it, the more I’ll have it. So I was determined to talk about the sex we had, particularly the quality of it. We talk about experimentation. We talk about foreplay. We talk about positions. We talk about toys. Too many people expect their partners to just figure it out our read minds. Our sex is better now than is ever been. That’s what communicating does. And communication is the responsibility of both partners. Guys who are bored in the bedroom are just as at fault.

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  4. John, I can relate to your wife. The phrase “I have to believe” was where I was at. I’m now an atheist. The journey of deconversion was slow and painful but the fact that you’re having these conversations is really positive. Now my husband and I watch loads of atheist stuff. My journey is different to his. I had a lot my invested in my faith than he did. I “had to believe”. I’ll be interested to see how it pans out with you too. Have you heard of Jim Mulholland? He wrote an amazing book called Leaving Your Religion. If you haven’t already, you should totally buy it. He was a minister too. Anyway, big ups to you. Your story is important. Thanks for sharing.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. I’ve yet to come across a christian who wasn’t cherrypicking what they liked in christianity and discard what they don’t like. Or they conveniently exploit the fact that the bible is highly subject to interpretation and just pick whatever interpretation that happens to support their values. Argh, sorry about the rant, this kind of stuff just rubs me the wrong way because it’s so illogical.

    That being said, it makes me happy to read that she seems to genuinely want to understand the causality of your inability to believe. Once again, i suggest that you pick up the book titled “Why We Believe In God(s) a concise guide to the science of faith” by J. Anderson Thomson Jr. and Clare Aukofer. The contents of that book could help you and your wife learn to better understand what causes people to believe in gods and through the contents of the book you might also learn to better understand the situation of one another in this stage of your lives when it comes to faith.

    Take care.

    Liked by 1 person

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